Norm Finkelstein - His Truth and Bravery Exceeds and Surpasses the idiocy of MOOT points and nitpicking.
To Christopher Marlowe:
You urge caution? For what?
Hilberg has been noted in many site documentations that the # of deaths were about 2 million. As the years passed into the 80s he increased it to 5 million. There is no reason as to why he did this. Do you have a reason as to why? I have a hunch.
So now we have some inaccuracies about Raul Hilburg.
And in the big picture he and his figures are a MOOT point. Or should I say, what you are bringing up about him is a moot point – but thanks for making me do some research on Raul Hilburg – interesting how his numbers of the dead changed from past years to his 1985 figures.
The commentary states he says 50,000. I told you about the ALLEGED gassing of 50,000 jews according to a few sites I discovered quoted by Raul Hilberg. So maybe there was a mistake. A discrepancy of the video. MAYBE. You should find out for sure since you are the one urging caution and pinching for tight facts. And when you do find out about the truth/facts of this fabled 50,000 Jews - Still, in light of everything about zionism, israel, the the USAGE and USURY of the holocaust IT WILL BE AN ABSOLUTE MOOT POINT.
Did you click on my link for the table of the numbers of the dead? Did you read the 1991 figure as placed in the New York Times?
73,137
This figure was reported in The New York Times on March 3, 1991 and was based entirely on the wartime German concentration camp records that had been captured by the Soviets and just recently released. According to this figure, of those dead, 38,031 were Jews. These records state that the total of all persons who died in the ENTIRE German prison camp system from 1935 to 1945 were 403,713. To repeat: a total of 403,713 persons of all races and religions was officially recorded to have died (of all causes. typhus, old age, measles, etc.-and execution) in the entire prison camp system over a 10 year period. Of those 403,713 a total of 73,137 died at Auschwitz. Of those 73,137 who died at Auschwitz, 38,031 were Jews.
Betcha By Golly Wow. Now we have 38,031 Jews instead of 50,000.
Shall we dispute numbers all day and all night long? I don't mind ya know.
In my research I found this table.
THANKS. Wouldn't have found it if you hadn't challenged me. Would you say the New York Times concerning the info above is inaccurate?
How do you know? What are your sources? Give them to me.
Meanwhile, back at the OK Corral…..
What is Norman Finkelstein SAYING. That, my dear marlowe, is the meat and potatoes of my post.
What Norman Finkelstein is saying about the HOLOCAUST INDUSTRY is the ultimate goal of my blog. What is Norman Finkelstein saying about Palestine? What is he saying about the numbers of surviving Jews years and years away from the Holocaust and what does he mean by this?? Did you hear his speech?
Can you even tell me about the 40s and 50s when in those years the word holocaust [in relation to the tradedy of the jews] did not even exist in dictionaries and encyclopedias – not really until after 1967. Not until after the ’67 war with Egypt.
HOW COME?
“According to the Oxford English Dictionary, “holocaust” in English has meant since 1671 the “complete consumation by fire ... of a large number of persons,” and “unique” means “one and only; single, sole, solitary.” A number of personal inquiries have been made over the past year to various individuals on the Council as to the justification for the continued reference to the Jewish experience in the holocaust as “unique,” but so far without success.”
http://radoc.net:8088/Uniqueness_of_the_Holocaust_Victims_print.htm
Norman Finkelstein’s voice is joined by many others – did you not know?
"[The Holocaust had been] hardly talked about for the first twenty years or so
after World War II; then, from the 1970s on, [it became] ever more central in
American public discourse -- particularly, of course, among Jews, but also in the
culture at large. What accounts for this unusual chronology?"
-- Peter Novick, 1999, p. 2
"The actual historical subject [of the Holocaust] itself has
become almost unimportant compared with its contemporary
political function in the hands of some Jews."
-- John Fox, non-Jewish faculty member
in Jewish history and Holocaust studies at both
University College and Jews College, London,
[3-19-2000, p. 47-48]
"Many Jews use, shamelessly, the slaughter of the six million
by the Third Reich as proof that they cannot be bigots -- or
in the hope of not being held responsible for their bigotry.
It is galling to be told by a Jew whom you know to be
exploiting you that he cannot be doing what you know he
is doing because he is a Jew."
-- James Baldwin, Black novelist,
p. 34
"The myth of the Holocaust teaches that throughout their
history of persecution the Jews have been blameless, their
oppressors irrational." -- Liebman and Cohen p. 33
"It isn't the truth [about Jews in the Holocaust era] that
frightens me but the suppression of free speech in order to
protect communal myths that are not lies but truths rendered
so sacrosanct and undiscussed that they start to smell fishy."
-- Carol Oppenheim, Jewish author,
p. 39
"[Jewish] manufactured claims of uniqueness for their own
people are, after all, synonymous with dismissal and denial of
the experience of others ... Narcissistic false claims of
uniqueness are joined with brutal, racist denials of the
sufferings of others, becoming two sides of the same coin."
-- David Stannard, p. 198
In 1967, with the multiple-nation Arab war against Israel, worldwide Jewry snapped to a new kind of attention and consciousness, one that has since accelerated to our own day into deeply politicized Jewish obsessions with anti-Semitism, the hallowed specialness of the Holocaust, and the absolute sanctity of Israel. During the 1967 Arab war, Jews everywhere (as it is told and retold in Jewish scholarship) imagined the prospect for another Holocaust. "It would be impossible to understand the present Israeli stance toward the Arabs without taking full account of the Holocaust," says Jay Gonen. [GONEN, p. 151]
http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/18holo1.htm
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I am aware that people who don’t believe in the so-called “religion” Holocaust are branded so-called “anti-semites”.
Indeed, I am aware.
I am aware of the house-of-horrors of the so-called “religions” of the Zionists:
Anti-semetism – a moot point and not a precise term anymore.
israel’s right to exist
israel’s right to self-determination
israel’s desire to be recognized
israel’s right to defend itself
All moot points and not precise terms at all - but only in a debate with a bullying and sociopathic Zionist in MSM. Correct? Yes, correct.
Norman Finkelstein in his books and speeches make these points in a nutshell.
They are not lies. They are facts.
But not according to the likes of Alan Dershowitz. Correct? Yes, correct.
But who would YOU believe?
You see Alan Dershowitz would take his fangs and chomp on that little bit of the 50,000 and never let go just as you are doing. It’s called distraction. But thank you! I love a good rollicking DEBATE. And I am here to tell you it’s a MOOT point and I would tell him so myself as I have told many Zionists on blogsites.
I grab a hold of what I know to be important and I – DO- NOT – LET- GO.
Tell me…. should we also put to rest the incoming FACTS of the truth about 9/11 [although MSM will have nothing to do with it]
…………………….. or are they lies also?
++++++++++++++++++
Now I have fixed the discrepancy - http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/2071 - concerning Raul Hilburg. You, Marlowe, will have to contact the source of the video to get it completely fixed.
What Norman Finkelstein says in the video STILLS STANDS.
What Norman Finkelstein states in the video is accurate, informative, and highly educational - and one day these truths will be a part of what's needed to dismantle zionism.
was that the Hilberg quote was inaccurate, and I stand by that.
Seeing as Hilberg's work is touted as the seminal work on the holocaust, and that his revision did not alter the total number, I would tend to doubt a website or video that quotes a number attributed to Hilberg that differs from those in his "Destruction of the European Jews". His original work was published in 1961, and I've read criticism that says the reprint was not a radical departure. I don't think his number is correct, but that doesn't give me liberty to change what he said.
There is a critique of Hilberg's book here:
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/Giant/
As to mootness, I'm not sure what you mean. If you mean to say that the error I pointed out is irrelevant in light of the fact that Hilberg is incorrect anyway: it doesn't change the fact that the incorrect number is a misattribution.
If you mean to say that the number is moot because it is arguable, (because the video only MAYBE made a mistake), then then I think that is wrong. I also cannot say the burden lies with me to prove the video wrong beyond what I have done. I have cited Hilberg's source, the breakdown he gives, and a critique of his work.
Yes, I've seen the video. I've seen the video before. The number was wrong then, too.
I don't doubt the use of the holocaust for sympathy or as an excuse for Israel to exist, or that greedy people steal money claiming it is for "survivors".
I think 911 was an inside job contracted out to Israel.
I agree with a lot of the things that you said. I just pointed out a factual error in the video that you transcribed. If something is wrong, it is wrong. It's not up to me, that's just the way things are.
If I urge caution, it is the sort of caution that should always be urged: To get your facts straight.
Of course everyone makes mistakes. I make mistakes. When someone points out my mistakes, I hope I have the grace and presence of mind to acknowledge them.
I've heard it said that an error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it.
Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly.
You posted a whole blog to personally address and rebuke another WUFYS member? Couldn't you have just posted it in a comment?
Your problem is with one ditty part of the whole video.
Sooooo. Go to the video source and complain.
Did you understand what Norman Finkelstein was saying in the video?
Also the video quotes different numbers by different sources. Internet search will give one an array of differences.
There's all kinds of discrepancies with numbers concerning the holocaust. All kinds.
Your not making any points with me.
My facts are straight.
There's all kinds of games being played with the numbers of the dead with the massacres of Jenin, Qana, Shatila-Sabra, and even the American soldiers in Iraq.
We could go 'round and 'round with those too.
We could go 'round and 'round with those too.
Rhiannon | Wed, 2007-06-13 19:38
My pale research on Hilburg is an interesting one.
But I love what he says about Norman Finkelstein.
No dispute there: ACCURATE, FACTUAL, and most assuredly THE BIG PICTURE!
http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/2111
http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/2071
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This will have to do.
I appreciate all of your earnest efforts. Keep up the good work.
"Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly."