I do not know where you get your info from but YOU do not speak for Mohammed the prophet, and the Muslims of this world.

It's people like you that create all this bean-splitting bullshit.

IS THE QURAN.

PERIOD.

Hadiths are heresay unless supported by the Quran.

PERIOD.

I felt a few uncomfortable 'after tastes" by reading this post too:
1. As 'somebody's opinion' is fine, but it uses a distasteful method used by marketers and promoters of commercial products, politicians running for office, etc.: instead of hiliting "positives of self", it picks on "negatives of others". Disrespecting others, brings disrespect on you. It only promotes animosity rather than a gentle dialogue.
2. It portrays that there is or must be a unified definition of "moslem". I am not sure moslems from China to France appreciate or need that.
3. Talmud is not a holy book, like Torah, and is written by rabbis over time, in a sense like Al-Sunna or Shari'a or Hadiths. Moving focus from Qur'an to Al-Sunna has a weird similarity to Talmudists' moving emphasis from Torah to Talmud.
4. It portrays if you take the tiny shi'ites out, you get the "pure Islam", which is incapable of "negotiation and tolerance".
5. The uncalled for "Assuring" us that Mohammed historically existed, actually creates and imposes the notion that a huge number of people out there doubt this.
6. If you do not agree that Islam is THE ONLY religion, you are an atheist, and you may not know it yourself.

You said it right and true.

Muslims accept ALL the prophets. Jesus is mentioned in the Quran about 30 times - much more than Mohammed is. God and all the prophets would look down on all this Shia, Sunni nonsense.

The Hadiths are heresay.

Yes Mohammed did pray 5 times a day - but that was his own choosing for Himself.

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http://www.free-minds.org/

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Islam was not meant to be divided into sects.

Porter is just playing games as far as I can tell.

Porter's post is based on MYTH.

welcome, maggie!

I'm not sure if this is your first post - but I like it!

Rhi and katz make some good points and I am interested in hearing your reply. though I am not sure that you meant what they interpreted from your post.

I know that there are many people who do not like to follow sunna and they consider it hearsay - which indeed it is. However, that does not prove that it is untrue, simply that it is not 100% reliable.

Nevertheless, it should not be a bone of contention between muslims as long as there is no contradiction between the sunna and the Quran.

Anyway, it's really great to see discussions like these at the blog.

BTW, it's very hard to read the yellow, pink, and blue text. But, the yellow is the hardest. I recommend that you stick to darker colors for your text - it's easier on the eyes.

---------------------------------------
"Money" has no value - people do.

As a Christian, I take exception to the reference to my belief as a lie. (And in an ugly shade of green.)

It is your (and anyone's) prerogative to believe or not to believe that Christ died and rose again; or that Jesus instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist, where he shared his own body and blood. I could explain it with logic and with reference to the Bible if you are interested. I could go on in detail about what a Christian is without ever mentioning Islam or Muslims. It isn't necessary to show what my faith means by making a slam on another relgion. Of course, I could make a slam, but I would be speaking out of ignorance, because I don't know what a Muslim is.

"Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly."

[porter] "In essence, the entire practice of "modern" Christianity is based on a profound lie which basically relegated their own beloved prophet a unique kind of "paganistic" symbol and worse yet, he is worshiped as a statue of a man in his skivvies, nailed to a cross and bleeding. Therefore, they are also "idolators" according to the definitive descriptions of what constitutes that sort of "believer".

Skivvies??? "idolators"?? NO decent Muslim would speak like this. No Muslim worth his/her grain of their faith would dare say such disrespectful things.

Do unto others, my friend, DO UNTO OTHERS.

Naturally porter is "much ado about something"!

And indeed... something wicked does comes this way...

-->Maggie "Most of Islam is not even in the Quran but in what is called "Al-Sunna" of the prophet which contains the "methodology" of praying, fasting, pilgrammage, etc."

Welcome Maggie, however I wold like to point out with due respect that this statement of yours is not true. The Holy Qur'an is the source of Islam, Al-Sunna and Shari'ah is nothing else but Qur'an interpreted by the Sunna or practice of the Prophet Muhammad. According to his wife Aisha he was a "walking Qur'an" meaning that his way of life was the Qur'an embodied. Therefore to say what you say is ignorance about Islam and I suggest that you give it some more time to study. Some things that you said were correct and some were wrong, however when you talk about Islam don't get to excited for in that over zeal you will lose composure and balance as it happened in this post. Allah The Most Wise has instructed our Prophet Muhammad and us to kindness and wisdom (best of speech) when talking or debating to the followers of other religions. Therefore I find it distasteful to hear disgraceful words linked to Christian belief in Jesus Christ. We may not agree with what they believe about him but we must refrain from inappropriate words that will hurt their feelings and distance them from us for really there is no wisdom in us telling them what their belief is in reality. Anyone who wants to know what Allah says about Jesus and his holy and pure mother Mary can without difficulty sit down and read Qur'an and if he/she has any objections to it let him take that matter up with Creator of us all. If people misunderstand something from Qur'an we may correct them with politeness but in noway we should talk and behave like certain Christian priests that were noted on this blog for their ignorant and excessive contempt for Islam and our Prophet, peace be upon him and all believers. Also Christians can not be called atheists for they believe in God in their own way and we must tolerate their right to their own belief for Allah has taught us so in Qur'an. Rhianon bro some things that you have said are also right and some are wrong for Hadith is not a hearsay but rigorously noted and categorized teaching of the last Prophet. Muslims are well aware of the authenticated sayings of the Prophet and forgeries as well. Islamic science of Hadith is so rigorously preserved that is actually in most cases more reliable in its chain of transmitters than are most of the Books of the New Testament. Any notion that all Shias are not Muslims is utterly wrong and also that all Sunnis are not Muslims is utterly wrong. Both groups have few bad apples and history confirms that. Dissent among the sons of Adam started with Abel and Kain and not race or nation or religion has been spared from that dissent, therefore Muslims were also destined to split not in two but many groups same as previous religions. Moreover that is the only prayer of the Prophet Muhammad that was not granted to him by the Almighty. Muslims are after all only human beings and not angels. Human being is the phenomenal theater on which angels and demons struggle for the souls of the men. Muslims are not free from evil whisperings of the devil and can and do commit sins. However majority of them have preserved basic belief in the fundamental tenets of faith. I hope I did not insult anyone here for that was not my intention and if I did please forgive my weakness in expression.

"Let there be Light!"

The Prophet Mohammed said: "Do not write after me..."

What was Mohammed saying? Do not write a book about Himself for only Gods words through Mohammed are all that is needed. In the Hadiths, what you really have are scholars of Islam and intimate followers, (as well as their generations) of Mohammed congregating and saying to each other:

"Well my grandfather knew Mohammed and He said this, ( ibn so and so said this and ibn so and so said that), and my greatgrandfather knew Him and he said that", and so on and so forth, and so they wrote this all down and made this into the Hadiths..... hearsay.

I doubt very much that God will punish any Muslim woman for going through the "he" doors of the Mosque when she should have gone through the "she" doors. I doubt that God will punish any man for shaking hands with a woman, especially when she is menstruating.

The Quran says it is by far more important to spend an hour daily learning about the world than praying all day long.

It doesn't matter if you fast and plan your trip to Mecca. What is the straight path? God sees your heart. It is hard to love people and be honest, to be patient, and show mercy. It is easy to be greedy, neglectful of another's feelings, and to be boastful. Rituals are easy but meaningless without the straight path. If the 5 pillars of Islam are embraced but with an empty or dishonest heart then what good are they?

If rituals and culturisms help people along with the straight path then I am all right with it. But these are just asides not the main course.

God is not stupid.

And it is most aggressively arrogant and incredibly UNIslamic to say that Christianity is based on a LIE. Many teachings of the previous prophets - especially done by Moses and Jesus - are in the Bible, and then later the Quran.

And finally, my dear Maggie, it may surprise you, but there are actually some atheists who are better people than some people who supposedly practice their faith.

What is there not to love and honor in a human who touches minds and hearts with sincerity and Grace?

http://carmenisacat.blogspot.com/

Well hopefully you have read the other posts and realize that I have no interest in attacking the FAITH of others but most certainly I aim to explain to them the errors in the MECHANICS of their faith.

The Sunna of the prophet are the actual mechanics. Most of the Sunna is not in the Quran itself but was emulated and reported on in the hadith and the common body of worshippers. That common body of worshippers was divided at the moment of the prophet's death into two camps, the Sunni and the Shia (although a name was not given to either one at the time..it developed later).

Thanks for all your advice regarding how to speak to others. I'll keep it in mind and I'll also retain the right to insist on what is right. Afterall, no one should insist on what is wrong.

If you prefer to do that then I think you might think about returning to those practices that you defend. Why not? You like them and prefer to protect them so you should.

The problem with this point of view is that it does not help non muslims to clarify the problem let alone formulate a way to ammend it. It spreads ignorance.

In the end, I am unable to guide a person towards the truth and we all know that there is no coercion in religion. That is the work of Allah thank you very much.

I would be very interested to know from one of the Christians who has been so kind to respond here...I'd like to know from one of them what the Sunna of Jesus Christ actually was.

Did Jesus pray every day? Twice a day? On Sunday?

Did Jesus take the Eucharist every day or once a week or once in a lifetime?

Did Jesus command his followers to not circumcize their sons?

To eat pork, drink alcohol?

Did Jesus Christ instruct his followers on proper attire?

Do Christians have any kind of common ground with each other regarding these issues? Why or why not?

When and if a person can begin to illuminate those then perhaps they can see the reason I must illuminate the mechanics for those who are ignorant. INCLUDING those kept ignorant by other politically correct MUSLIMS whose aim is to be liked not listened to.

My apologies for being so very, very direct.

How it is.

http://carmenisacat.blogspot.com/

The Quran itself states that the Christian sect (the practice of calling Jesus "God") is based on a lie so outrageous that it causes the earth to shake and tremble at its mention.

What do you have to say about that then?

Therefore, it isn't me that states this but the Quran and obviously there are some muslims that are perhaps not as familiar with some of the harsher aya inthe Quran. Either that or they avoid those types of questions because they are unable to defend their points.

I assure you, I am able to defend mine.

Salaam wa alaikum wa rahma'tullah wa barakathu.

believe and its not my job to defend Christianity but I must say that Christianity is not based on lie rather its affected by misinterpretation of someone's else lie. First of all there is no original text of either Old or New Testament and Bible itself speaks of scribes meddling with its content (look in Jeremiah). So when we speak about trinity and the alleged divinity of Jesus we must not mixed that with certain legacies still preserved in the Bible that are based on the original text. Biblical scholars claim that Bible can not be taken as the literal Word of God and they clearly pointed out why is so. This would be job of the adherents of Christianity to look into and sincerely find answers to those scholarly claims. Christians in spite of their belief about Jesus are considered as Ahlul Kitab (People of the Book) though Almighty clearly rebukes in no uncertain terms any person who tries to change monotheism into polytheism. Also we should be aware that polytheism (ar. shirk) is divided into many ways of expression. Moreover there are Christians who do not believe in trinity and divinity of Jesus although they are in minority today while they were in majority in the beginning. Time plays quite degrading effect on mankind and I am really amazed that Islam survived as monotheistic religion for so long in spite of going through all troubles as Judaism and Christianity before it. However Islam is one thing and Muslims quite the other. Muslims have lost a great deal of their initial glory and sincerity and that is why we have so many trials and problems upon us. They are meant to rid us corruption and extreme attachment to this material world. Please guys try to find middle ground to this debate as it goes on and try to be objective researchers into all that you claim or deny.

"Let there be Light!"

http://carmenisacat.blogspot.com/

..is that many muslims miss the fact that the Quran is for muslims, not non muslims. A non muslim has very little chance of understanding the totality or the scholarship of Islam.

As far as looking into it...well. We as muslims are supposed to "look into it" and we are to try to extrapolate what is there that may be useful to us.

For instance, the old Testament, the Torah had information about food. Specifically, haram versus halal. The Jews had the same limitations and their limitations are described in detail. The Quran lacks this specific information. Does it relate anything about the status of the hare for instance?

Nope. But the Torah does and we are just as responsible for what is in the Torah as we are for what is in the Quran.

THEY are not responsible for what is in the Quran. They will follow Islam however, willingly or unwillingly because the laws of the Quran are identical to the laws of the Creation.
For instance, unauthorized sex will get a person into a variety of situations that complicate one's life. The Quran forbids unauthorized sex but Allah states clearly that whether or not it is prohibited in the Quran, it is prohibited in nature and will have consequences.

I as a muslim am not in any way accountable for the ignorance of non muslims but I am responsible for the act of misinforming them of what we know that is extracted from the Quran including the Lie. The Lie in the Quran is not hidden to anyone. It is discussed openly.

My suggestion is that non muslims are just incredibly shocked to know that they are discussed so openly in the Quran.

Not to mention the Jews. Is it any wonder that they hate muslims like they do? Because they are much more aware regarding the truths that the Quran relates about them. In turn, they have created propaganda so as to distract the much more ignorant Christians from the facts contained in the Quran.

I won't even go into how the Sunnis promote ignorance of the Quran.

As far as hadiths go....well. They aren't just hearsay. Perhaps you mean the Sunni hadiths are lopsided and look like hearsay but when you combine the Shia hadiths with those, you get a much better picture of the problem in Islam in which a group of people violated the Will of the Creator.

What most muslims fail to tell others is that our problem is much weightier than theirs. WE should know better.

When people practice the spread of ignorance it is usually because they hope to covert their own misconceptions which may be intentional or unintentional. No different really from the intention of Christians or Jews who live and pratice ignorance.

and talk about Deen without bias toward Shia or Sunni and you will find the right path. Like this you are just following into steps of 100 generations of those who blindly supported their groups without even knowing what other group is all about. You claim wish to clear away misconceptions about Christianity yet you just help complicate them by expounding on your belief that Shia Islam is the only correct view on Qur'an and other books. Why do you talk like you know it all and show ridiculing tone when talking about Sunni Hadith. That is not a way for a humble Muslim to debate anything let alone religion. I am following Sunni Hanafi Madhab of jurisprudence but I am well aware that one of the teachers of Imam Abu Hanifa was Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (radiallahu anhum). I have no problem with belief that Ahlul Bayt is blessed family and that every Muslim must love and respect them. Iranians are mostly Shias but I pray to Allah that He strengthens them and supports them in resisting Zionists. Iranian president is clearly seeking cooperation and unity among Muslims while you are mostly effecting disunity not just between Christians and Muslims but between Sunnis and Shias as well. To be honest I find it ridiculous this whole concept of Sunni versus Shia division. Don't you see that Zionist are just using it to destroy both groups. Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine etc. are shown to us every day in world news. This to me sounds like debate between orthodox and catholics within Christianity. Yet we Muslims see them as one religion because they share basic beliefs. Basic beliefs required of us by Qur'an are same for Sunnis and Shias so why debate further and dissolve our energy in details for verily Satan is in details. We must work with nonmuslims with basics and seek what is common to all of us and build righteousness on it otherwise we will remain slaves of Zionist who originated all this discord to distract us from their agenda.

"Let there be Light!"

http://carmenisacat.blogspot.com/

You are dead wrong.

I personally didn't invent the conflict. I did personally do my own ijtihad regarding it.

You haven't. If you had you'd realize that you now belong to another sect. The sect which declares all other POV null and void.

This unfortunately isnt the answer.

The devil is as much in your details as mine or hadn't you considered the act of assigning this kind of purity to your own views as "un Islamic"?

It would be nice if we could all just pretend that the sectarian crisis isn't there and that the Jews are not persecuting the Pals but that is just more of the same Western approach that is part ignorance and mostly heavenly isolation.

But feel free to state your opinions. I've no problem with that.

I've got answers for most of what you can put to me when it comes to sectarianism.

What you have is a POV called ignore it and it will go away. Yeah. Right.

is better than affirming facts which results in no positive outcome. I can not see anything new in what you said and most of people already know basic thing about our differences or do you imagine that you discovered new continent by expounding on sectarianism within and between religions. What do you think you can achieve but talking like that?! Don't be just another self righteous zealot like those Bible bashing evangelist in west. You think that there is some conspiracy against Shia literature and that nonshia Muslims are not aware about what you know and claim. I am just urging you to be reasonable and understand age and circumstances of the time you live in. I think we had enough of exclusivists and totalitarians in this past 14 centuries in Islam and other religions as well. People like that always stir souls and cause upheavals which usually finish in wars and bloodshed. I am sick of crusaders from every religion who want to force their opinion and belief on everyone else. To hell with it. God is One and He is the only Judge of His servants. Those who dare to usurp that Divine right will be judged. I don't want to ask you anything because there is nothing you can tell me that I need to know. Everyone choses his wellspring from which he will drink.

"Let there be Light!"

There will always be times when a certain type of personality and character becomes manifest. These types of people are archetypes. You cannot remove it.

The Shiaa really do not have a leg to stand on intellectually speaking if they honestly and without preconceptions listen to the Sunni viewpoint.

I can live with Shiaa, so long as they do not make alliances with the enemies of the sunni...of course there will always be people who exploit the divisions amongst Muslims and to create conflicts, its up to a mature leadership amongst Muslims to guide the Muslims towards positive steps and empowerment.

Many Arabs have been completely taken away from Islam...they have abondoned it...embracing Modernism or wahabism or shiaism instead. This has been designed by the enemies of Muslims and Islam, its time we all recovered Islam.

As Salaam u alaykhum

http://carmenisacat.blogspot.com/

To be honest...this is all off the topic.

And to be honest, it is because there was only one poster who had anything constructive to add.

Those who were inflamed..they have their apology to their faith. Not their mechanics.

As for the enemies of the Sunnis. Oh come on. You must be kidding me.

Who exactly are the enemies of the Sunni right about now? Which Sunnis are you referring to? Saudi? Jordanian? Palestinian?

FYI, I am a staunch Hezbollah supporter and always have been. Not only because my home is in their territory but because I know a liar when I see one.

Nasrallah doesn't lie and therefore I know that my enemies are the same as his and our friends are as well, the same.

Why just yesterday the kids on our block set up an afternoon meeting place for themselves. Hariri worshiping and belly aching over something they not only fail to understand (as Sunnis) but fail to address the horrendous affairs of Hariri's son in terms of his US/Saudi alliances, money tampering and drug use.

I've no problem with Sunnis. Most of them don't know why they are Sunnis in the first place other than they were born that way. Same can be said for many Shia but luckily they continue the oral tradition of relating their common history and ancestry and therefore do not need to be literate in such academic problems as those involved with the discussion of Najhul al Balagha.

What gets me is the fact that until Sunnis face up to THEIR common ancestry, they will continue to fail to know who their enemies are or aren't. They will fail to develop leadership that leads to success. Afterall, name one war with Israel in which they won instead of getting paid off and I'll tell you who your enemies are as well as mine, that is, for you as a muslim.

http://carmenisacat.blogspot.com/

Let me just turn this back after clarifying a few things.

1. I am not an Arab. I'm as white and American as they come.

2. I have personally been witness to Saudi fundamentalism (lived there for over a decade). This is the type of Sunni fundamentalism that I address. Sunnis in other parts of the world need not apply. They are not yet part of the Islamic i.e. Al Qaeda problem.

3. I do not need personal advice. I suggest that those are wasted posts. I have certitude in my Islam.

That being said, it is clear to me that at one time, the Sunni-Shia divide was one of territorial and national interest only. No one who was not an Arab, Persian, Afghani knew much about it.

The situation has changed however for all parties including non muslims. There was a time when Islam itself was a ghost and that time was right up until September 10th, 2001. Up until then, no one could blame a non muslim for their ignorance of Islam. Now though, they hold responsibility for their ignorance because I can say with a reasonable amount of confidence that there aren't many people on the planet who do not know it is a mighty important topic they are being told to address (not by me but by Allah).

Back in the "good old days", Shia would never confront Sunnis. Not really...not at least on the scale that they are confronting each other due to the influence of the internet and the war in Iraq. Now, just like non muslims are being led to the scenes of their ignorance, so too are muslims regarding this major and undeniable divide. I assure you, the Shia have not changed their mind in over 1,400 lunar years. No one here ought to be under the impression that something or someone is going to do that now for them. The only chance to delay this confrontation was to support US democratization in the area but that obviously has failed and now the issue is smack dab in front of everyone including non muslims.

Arab muslims do not own Islam but they are the best scholars along with the Iranians and to some extent, other Asians from Bengalis to Pakistanis. As Islam spreads however, I truly believe that new muslims will be doing their own ijtihad.

Ijtihad...which many, many muslims believe to be something particular to Islam only is nothing more than critical thinking.

And when one does the necessary ijtihad (because without that how will one know who the US is arming to the teeth and who is one's enemy?), one does have to make up one's mind. For sure.

And certainly, there are some muslims who choose to remain ignorant of this affair but I can hardly imagine how they do that when the umma is so dreadfully afflicted in the Middle East. I think it is a kind of denial and one that is rooted in the fact that society dictates things that are peculiar to various people who live in other cultures. In the West the norm is to live in denial so it does not surprise me that muslim reverters in the West (and I am assuming that some posters here are of that variety) like to remain in denial of this issue. Perhaps they think it doesn't concern them or perhaps they simply haven't been told it is their right and their duty to investigate the problem.

Hard to tell but from some of the posts here, my suspicions are not relieved but validated. Especially when some people offer such sage advice telling me to remain objective "like them".

Objectivity which is actually subjectivity. Theirs.

No offense as I'm sure it is backed by the best intentions.

Peace

http://carmenisacat.blogspot.com/

To worship an image of something like a statue of Jesus Christ is to make that thing your God as much as it is the case for those Trinitarian examples. This is supported in the fact that one Christian became quite inflamed over it.

Now...my apologies for insulting your God. A muslim (here is my sage advice) is advised to never insult another person's "God" but you need to be told that I was insulting the statue, not the prophet. The statue itself is an insult to your God i.e. Jesus Christ. That is why muslims do not make images of such persons because it leads to exactly that.

And exactly that was the result. You became enraged because whether you are aware of it or not, you pay homage to a statue. Hard truths, bitter pill to swallow but it would be hypocritical for me to tell you otherwise.

http://carmenisacat.blogspot.com/

The Sunnis tend to ignore Ali abi Taleb altogether. To love him is to also know what he said. What he said wasn't gentle and that is why most people prefer to conceal it, deny it or otherwise pretend it doesn't exist and hence, they lose some truly profound kernels of truth in Islam:

From SERMON 5 of the Nahjul Balagha, The Peak of Eloquence

Delivered when the Holy Prophet died and `Abbas ibn `Abd al-Muttalib and Abu Sufyan ibn Harb offered to pay allegiance to Amir al-mu'minin for the Caliphate

O' People! (1)

Steer clear through the waves of mischief by boats of deliverance, turn away from the path of dissension and put off the crowns of pride. Prosperous is one who rises with wings (i.e. when he has power) or else he remains peaceful and others enjoy ease. It (i.e. the aspiration for Caliphate) is like turbid water or like a morsel that would suffocate the person who swallows it. One who plucks fruits before ripening is like one who cultivated in another's field.

If I speak out they would call me greedy towards power but if I keep quiet they would say I was afraid of death. It is a pity that after all the ups and downs (I have been through). By Allah the son of Abu Talib (2) is more familiar with death than an infant with the breast of its mother. I have hidden knowledge, if I disclose it you will start trembling like ropes in deep wells.

When you talk about moderate Muslims you seem to be implying that there is a legitimate fanatical brand of Islam that can be followed as do the fanatical Muslims.

These people are not following Islam and that should be made clear. These people have been radicalized by their situation -- military and economic repression -- so they have become radical in everything they do. They don't necessarily abandon their religion when they do this, they look to legitimize their actions through it.

This does seems to be a trend in all religions right now that defines people as "being more faithful" by the more right wing they are.

You should take a page out of Traveler's book. His last two posts to you were eloquently and most very well put!

You're wrong about Christians and their "idol worship" - VERY WRONG. And you do Islam or other Muslims no favors.

Christians are not idol worshippers! Don't be ridiculous! They are not worshipping the wood and the stone, they are embracing the spirit of Jesus - as if you know! Just like Muslims should not bother about such small stuff, Christians shouldn't be put off if Muslims find it offensive to see drawings of the prophet Mohammed....this is the better point to make! The details you point out are pointless.

Yes Nasrallah is a very great man! Yes he is a Muslim. Who cares what sect he's from? Do you think when his son died fighting israeli peakfrean terrorists ....that God cared?? And so what of it?

Are you also going to tell us that the hideous cowards, Salman Rushdie and Irshad Manji are "moderate Muslims" who apologize for a courageous man like Nasrallah?

Well Manji and Rushdie (phoney humans that they are) certainly do not represent moderate Muslims.

See how you go and confuse things?

Ellendra Jane

Anyone with a unbiased mind who studies recent Muslim and Islamic history cannot fail to recognize that Muslims especially the Arabs have been corrupted.

The idea that we can change the world through revolution is a very modern and very Jewish Masonic idea. Marxism and Communism are just examples.

The Zionists undermined Islam from within and they raised corrupt modern and "muslim" scholars like Muhhamad Abdu, and Jamaludin Afghani who then intellectually undermined Islam and attempted to fit it into the Judeo configured political economic system. A whole lot of young people in the Muslim world have been raised on this potent modernist revolutionary pseudo Islam. They abondoned traditional Islam. Traditional Islam is not based on the idea that we can socially engineer and change society through violence and revolution.

Muslims have jihad and activism traditionally but it is nothing like the modernist conceptions. It is all together a more richer and nuanced view of life.

None of the violence if it is carried out by Muslims under the influence of Judeo-Christian modernity and the Enlightenment, has benefited Muslims in any way...it has simply served the enemy after almost a hundred years...Muslims are still without power. This should be enough to convince these misguided Muslims to recognize that they are based on false principles and activity. Islam if practiced as traditionally espoused would empower Muslims almost immidietly. All they have to do is live by Islam and create alternative and Islamic trade and currency, with a chosen leader at all levels who will unite and make Jihad against the unbelievers in proper Islamic ways. That means not killing non combatants but going to war as a whole united body and ferociously fighting the enemy on the battle field.

http://carmenisacat.blogspot.com/

Okay then. If you worship Jesus then you are giving Allah a partner. If you believe Jesus can give you forgiveness or mercy, then you have given Allah a partner. Satisfied?

The bottom line is the same and the point of this article isn't about the need to challenge Christians in what they believe but to DEFINE what distinguishes a muslim from every other kind of believer. As far as Traveller's posts...well...I don't know him/her well enough to have attached any given post to any given poster. There were too many mixed up posts for me to do that.
I'm a writer and tend to be able to carry a point a bit better than most, to construct an argument a bit more cohesive. And "responses" in general tend to be unplanned and gut reactions to something rather than well constructed arguments. Suffice it to say, if I've said something and the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't then don't post a response. I assume that those that posted believe in what they said and gave some careful consideration to what I've written and how I've responded in the aftermath.

Muslim fundamentalism is not like other kinds of fundamentalism because Islam is a LITERAL tradition. It is based on facts of history, an actual text in the language of the prophet who received it and those who follow Islam do it in a way that closely approximates the actual practice of the prophets. This is simply not the case with Christianity. Jews are much closer in terms of practicing in the way they were taught to in ancient times but their fundamental beliefs are a summation of basically what is "remembered" and not what was "written down or memorized". I have also provided evidence from the Bhagavad Gita regarding the real nature of Hindu polytheism which originally was monotheistic. All these forms of worship are no longer in touch with the ancient principles let alone practices.

THAT is the point. The mechanics. The mechanics of a religion were never meant to be changed. The whole point of performing certain rituals (even in Buddhism) is that they assist a person to achieve a goal and that goal would be some form of union with the Creator. If the Creator establishes a given set of practices then those are the practices that lead to success. A person cannot just make up things as they go along and modern Christianity has very little to do with what they were instructed to do.

Like I said, I doubt seriously that Jesus condoned self cannibalism even if it was through a ritual. The ritual itself is based on the consumption of blood even if it is represented by wine. And there you go...the wine. The Creator prohibited alcohol and for very good reasons. But the Catholic church (with it's Hebrew sponsors) changed things a bit and allowed it and literally began marketing the consumption of alcohol (the gateway drug to many other types). So hopefully you can see how one little change in ritual (mechanics) leads to entire societies fighting a humungous social problem.

My blog entry was meant to incite. No one is listening to the soft spoken rhetoric it seems. In a perfect world perhaps.

I do appreciate your comments, even the bad ones. I don't get angry really as I've heard it all before really and it is expected on some level.

In the end, people who are angered by it need to know that I don't get any benefit nor does Allah from adding their name to the list of muslims. None at all.

The person who accepts Islam gets the benefit. I noticed an article on this site that asked "What if Jews/Israelis converted to Islam" and you know what? What if just Americans did? Do you not believe that it would in effect, defeat the cabal of evil doers in the White House?

I most certainly do and I encourage people to revert even if they don't know what they are reverting to or do not believe in it. Man. That's crazy.

Fill out your census forms when they come to ask you about your social standing, fill out every blank on any governmental document as "muslim" and mess with the system. And you never know...you may actually become a submitting muslim. Remember, even muslims can be agnostics (most of them actually are).

If I prosyletize, that is what I suggest. Overthrow these mofos peacefully simply by stating your affiliations have changed.

Peace

http://carmenisacat.blogspot.com/

This is from the Nahjul al Balagha (an indispensible text for understanding the Quran, Islam, sectarianism, faith):

"The foremost in religion is the acknowledgement of Him, the perfection of acknowledging Him is to testify Him, the perfection of testifying Him is to believe in His Oneness, the perfection of believing in His Oneness is to regard Him Pure, and the perfection of His purity is to deny Him attributes, because every attribute is a proof that it is different from that to which it is attributed and everything to which something is attributed is different from the attribute. Thus whoever attaches attributes to Allah recognises His like, and who recognises His like regards Him two; and who regards Him two recognises parts for Him; and who recognises parts for Him mistook Him; and who mistook Him pointed at Him; and who pointed at Him admitted limitations for Him; and who admitted limitations for Him numbered Him.

Whoever said in what is He, held that He is contained; and whoever said on what is He held He is not on something else. He is a Being but not through phenomenon of coming into being. He exists but not from non-existence. He is with everything but not in physical nearness. He is different from everything but not in physical separation. He acts but without connotation of movements and instruments. He sees even when there is none to be looked at from among His creation. He is only One, such that there is none with whom He may keep company or whom He may miss in his absence."

http://www.al-islam.org/nahj/

..now that is the best description I've ever read that aims to describe what a muslim is obligated to believe in..i.e. Tawheed.

And hopefully people here might begin to realize that I'm not only moderate in my practice but take it all quite literally (which is not to say fundamentally). Fundamentalism is such an unfortunate word and does not begin to describe muslims. It cannot because it literally accuses muslims of doing something that they MUST do in order to actually BE muslims. Muslims must go on Haj, must pray, must fast, must give charity, must cover their private parts, must not drink alcohol, must not eat pork...etc.

And hopefully people who are not muslim and who read this, get an inside view of what at least one muslim thinks. As opposed to just doing what they would be better off doing and READING the Quran for themself. And THAT is the best way to understand Islam but most people seem to be afraid to undertake that course of study, they don't care, they despise it (for various reasons from athiesm to sheer racial bigotry against an "Arab" prophet and the "Arab" language)...etc.

My Bible says (John 6:51) that Jesus said, "If anyone eats this bread, he will live forever. The bread that I will give him is my flesh..." It is obvious from the context that the people around Jesus though He was talking about cannibalism. They said, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" They didn't understand.

Later, Jesus institutes the Eucharist at the last supper, (Mt 26:26) when He said, "Take and eat it....This is My Body." We Catholics believe that Jesus transformed the bread into His Mystical Body. It is a Mystery. Our church has many mysteries. That is our faith. After the host is blessed, it still looks like bread. It tastes like bread. But it is the Mystical Body of Christ. By sharing in the bread, we share in Holy Communion with the Lord. Thus when we go to Communion, we should make sure that we have not committed any serious sins without having received the Sacrament of Reconcilliation.

Also, at the Last Supper, Jesus took a cup of wine, gave thanks to God, and said, "Drink it, all of you...this is my blood, which seals God's covenant, my blood poured out for many for the forgieness of sins. I tell you, I will never again drink this wine until the day I drink the new wine with you in my Father's Kingdom." So they drank wine and ate bread at the Last Supper, and shared in the Mystical Body and Blood of Christ. We Catholics believe that there is only One Eucharist, and that all Holy Communion relate back to the first one celebrated at the Last Supper.

So you see: it is not cannibalism, it is a mystery. Why did God plan it that way? I don't know. His ways are beyond my understanding. But I see His plan evidenced in the Scripture. Jesus was born in Bethlehem, which means house of bread. He was laid in a manger, which is a container from which cattle feed. So from His infancy we can see that Jesus was destined to become the Bread of Life.

"Stop judging by appearances, but judge justly."

http://carmenisacat.blogspot.com/

And you've no thoughts about the problems of drug and alcohol addiction in society? Hmm. Do you think Jesus would condone people doing something that would lead them into harm's way? And as a religious practice?

You see....Allah does not tell people to do harm to themselves and there is no mystery in the fact that Islam/Allah forbid the consumption of alcohol to the extent of even forbidding consuming ANYTHING that has been contained in a container which at one time held a drop of it. Furthermore, Allah stated that there is a cure for every disease. Therefore, Allah would not forbid a person from "getting a disease".

And you want me to believe it is a mystery?

There are mysteries Christopher. Our five senses limit us to certain perceptions but I assure you, the TEXTS are not one of those limitations. The Bible has been changed as well as practically ALL of the mechanics.

Tell me dear brother believer, do you FAST? I'll wager you don't and if you do, you fast only partially. VERY partially. And I ain't saying I am a good faster brother...but I do know that is my goal.

What are your Christian rules regarding fasting?

I am not challenging you. I am hoping that you think a bit about what it is you are assigning to the "Great Unknown".

And while I'm at it I'll share a poem that I wrote recently that I like. It is about a group of people called the Druze. Most people believe they are muslims but they do not do any single thing that muslims do i.e. fast, pray, go on Haj, believe in Judgement Day (they believe in reincarnation). How on earth they got lumped in with us...is political.

And since this site is entirely anti semitic (even in my Islamic estimations and my estimations of being a person who actually did suffer physical consequences of the Israeli invasion last year)..haha..my sentiments PALE in comparison to some of the anti semitic stuff around here. I ain't complaining really but I do want others to know that I do not condone things that are simply hateful towards the Jews. I think they are just as ignorant as anyone else and have been led down the merry path to their own destruction.

My poem:

The Aspiritations of a Druze Hair Stylist

Where is God said
my hairdresser outside
while overlooking the sea,
speaking of targeted
assassinations and the other
small talk one shares
with those who dabble
in hair and secrecy.
His car is worth eighty
thou and he hopes
America will embrace
his desire to set up shop
on the streets of a medium
sized city between
a Walmart and a Hallmark.
You don't know what
we believe in he says,
we believe in the trans-
migration of souls, we
believe in second chances.

I said I believe I'll not
be coming back to you,
and as for predictions:
Go Nidal. Go and see.
There will be no more setbacks
for you, you've got nothing to lose.

maggie the arrogant:

"I'm a writer and tend to be able to carry a point a bit better than most, to construct an argument a bit more cohesive. And "responses" in general tend to be unplanned and gut reactions to something rather than well constructed arguments."

OUT damn Arrogance!! OUT!