how's this?

This post is not exactly related to the discussion you were having at israel desperately seeks war with Iran - but, it's fresh!

And anyone who needs background can just refer back to that post.

... let me reply to Radioscope again.
The mere acknowledgement of greatness of your own group makes you a supremacist. For example if a man says: "men are more intelligent than women, because (... whatever)" he is automatically a male supremacist. The right attitude is to say: "men have a different type of intelligence than women and both sexes have their strong and weak points." The same goes for Jews and Gentiles. For example, Gentiles have given most famous explorers to our western civilization, but their financers were mostly jewish; both groups contributed to make life miserable for the indigenous populations.

"I have said on a previous post that Jews are not perfect and that we make mistakes just like anybody else".

Fair enough, the problem is that you Jews don't officially admit your mistakes, especially where the big issues are at stake. Do you admit the wrongs of the jewish arenda system in medieval Poland? No, you only recall Khmel'nitskii's 1648 pogroms. Do you admit the jewish Bolsheviks organised the genocide by starvation of some 7 million ukrainian peasants (plus the halving of the cossack 1 ml population by the same means) in the 1930s? No, you keep saying that Stalin ordered it. Do you admit the jewish Bolsheviks were the first to set up forced-labour camps (gulags) in the 1920s for the decimation of the slavic peoples? No, you only speak of gulags as Stalin's favourite means of repression for Jews (who normally survived the gulag) in the 1930s. Do you admit the savage revenge exacted against german civilians and POWs in the aftermath of WW2? Some 9 million victims nobody ever speaks about, but you keep reminding us all only about your 6 millions. The Gentiles (the Germans and the Catholic Church, for example) have done their act of atonment, when will you do yours?

"This is what the Talmud is basically all about".

You forget to say the 64-volumed Talmud also indicates how to behave in respect of the Gentiles (Christians, more specifically), and these indications are so racialist to have periodically induced Popes and christian kings to order the Talmud publically burned.

"... in the traditional Jewish sense, the Commandment not to Murder (...the 6th Commandment) not only forbids the murder of someone in the physical sense, but also in the psychological sense".

As justice seeker already observed, it seems to us this only applies in respect of Jews, not of Gentiles.

"You have to understand that progress is a forward-moving thing. Do not resent the Jewish people for being movers-and-shakers."

Again, by progress you mean the progress of your own kinsmen and often at the expense of some Gentile group. As I have explained in other posts, in the energy sector jewish attitudes are anything but progressive. In medicine, your
contributions have been remarkable, but there are vested interests because we know there are also many dedicated jewish zoologists and zootechnicians.

"Here in the U.S., one can come aboard almost any secular campus, college or major university, and find halls, gymnasiums or other structures with Jews names on them. Why would Jews donate so much money to secular institutions"?

To write some huge chunks of income tax off, for example, so in the end it's the taxpayer that pays the most and jewish tycoons get the merit, plus the benefits of sending your own progeny to study in well-provided Gentile institutions too.

"... the Gentile serfs of European nations did not get days off from work".

Correct. They had to work 7 days a week to feed primarily the aristocracy (european, as well as mongol in Eastern Europe), the jewish tribute-collectors and finally their own family. Not surprisingly, they had no time to educate themselves and only the Gentile aristocracy could.

"It means, if Gentiles want to play catch-up to Jews (...and now, perhaps more prevalently, Asians) in the world of international finance, media and whatever else, they had just better start getting to it"!

As I explained, this requires also the development of Gentile tribal bonding attitudes, not lacking so much amongst Asians and very strong amongst Turanians.

"We Jews, generally speaking, are an educated people, generally speaking. Just who is to determine how far we are permitted to go in life"?

There must be limits!! Set up by laws, international laws and UN resolutions. Israeli expansionism, for example, must be denounced and halted before it develops into WW3. As the blog which hosts this comment shows, China and Russia are not willing to see the ME and Asia taken entirely under Israeli-American-European control. At some point they will draw the line and show their military muscle. Then what? Armageddon? On another issue (perhaps minor, but ...) the turkish and israeli exploitation of slavic sex-workers in their brothels must be halted. Just what will stop all these abominations when Israeli law-makers close an eye or are accomplices, whilst the UN resolutions against Israel are US-vetoed or just ignored?

"If you are an atavist and don't appreciate progress, then I can understand why you don't like the Jews".

Progress is a good thing, so long as it does not hurt everybody else, including Nature. If we take the extreme continuation of your scheme, should you Jews then consume this planet completely and then move to another world? Is that why your astronomers are so excited about the discovery of extra-solar terrestrial worlds? Look, there is no space-propulsion system ready to take you there, the concept of space-travel is still in its infancy. Do you want to end up like Easter-Island people, dreaming of departure, but consuming their island completely and having to resort to antropophgy? There must be limits to human development.

"It's wise to let go of the past, and to aspire to make the future better".

This is only wishful thinking, when you keep reminding us of Khmel'nitskii's 1648 pogroms and the Nazis' 1940s Holocaust. Why does your preaching not apply to those issues too?

"When I read posts from people who only know what the Talmud says from websites or literature which have no desire to understand it from a Jewish perspective, it is disconcerting to me".

I know about the Talmud's racialist attitudes towards the Gentiles from jewish writers who left Judaism. What they say is what those 'antisemitic' websites also say.

"Re: Zionist Jews having stolen Arab land":

In a nutshell, you claim the Arabs and Palestinians fled, lacking leadership and resources to fight the Zionists. You forget the massacres (like Deir Yassin's) committed by the Zionists. The autochtonous population fled for their life and survival, not just because the Zionists turned up, and the Zionists then took their land for good. I'm no expert on ME history, but it seems to me that in 1948 the Ashkenazis did in Palestine exactly what the Red Army (led by ashkenazi officers) did to the east-german civilians in the Third Reich provinces of East-Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia in 1945. They practiced savage terrorism on the local german populations in order to force them to flee and leave all their land and possessions behind. The technique worked for the Soviets in 1945 and it worked for the Zionists in 1948. OK, the Hebrews of the Bible did the same to the Caananites and Philistines, so it would seem that 3000 years of history did not improve your co-religionists' manners at all. Fair enough, but resistence from the dispossessed is natural and I'm ready to bet that in some not too distant future even the Germans will claim slices of Poland back for themselves.

"There are no solid numbers for this exodus, but estimates range around 100,000 people".

"These Arabs were fleeing of their own free will. No one, neither Israel nor the Arab states, were encouraging, frightening, or ordering them to do so".

I've read some 700.000 fled. And they were not Arabs; some where, but the bulk are autochtonous Palestinians (Philistines) who (changed by countless invasions of that strategic piece of land) were there before the Hebrew tribes
arrived from Egypt. And they were indeed not encouraged to flee: they were savagely terrorised and brutalised, like I said above.

"If the U.S. patent office hadn't confiscated so many of Nikola Tesla's brilliant ideas and kept them from us, this would not even be an issue right now".

Maybe you could elaborate on this passage, Radioscope, which I certainly do not follow.

"The Muslim nations hold the majority of the world's petroleum resources. Being that the function of our economy is fundamentally oil-based ..."

So you admit oil is the main culprit, therefore those who control oil distribution and production too (nevermind those who own the land under which oil is to be found). But you also imply that some Gentiles would still be resentful of Jews even if oil had become obsolete. You are right, oil is not the only commodity you Jews like to control. Resentment will not wane until a group's - any group - share in worldly affairs becomes proportionate to that group's numerical strength in any society.

"... the Palestinian Arabs have been kept as refugees for the Muslim world's war of proxy against the state of Israel from the beginning."

The Palestinians are NOT Arabs, when will you Ashkenazi Jews admit to that? The Arabs call them 'Falestinyum', so they are viewed as descendents of the Philistines, which is (simplifying) what they are. These Philistines mixed so much with the Hebrews and other semitic peoples (Arabs too) that genetic tests (I give these little scientific value, though) have indicated they are now genetically identical to the middle-eastern Jews. But it's true the Muslim world opposes the state of Israel as a matter of principle. Muslims view Israel as a phalanx of the West and of western economic interests in the ME, so nothing much different from what the frankish state of the Crusades was. Why should they accept Israel, when they never accepted the christian Franks?

"Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the U.A.E. and Qatar could certainly have pooled their resources to have helped their brethren relocate to vacant land within their territories if they'd wanted to;"

Why should the Palestinians live in foreign lands as refugees, guest workers (which is what they are now)? They do suffer prejudice (as non-Arabs) in such conditions, just like semitic and turanic Jews have suffered from the prejudice of the european-stock peoples hosting their communities. As Ahmadinejad says, why put remedy to a wrong by means of another wrong? As I have added somewhere else, the Ashkenazis could have returned to their ancestral real homeland, Kazakhstan.

"but, they don't want to because, having a Jewish state in the Middle-East is anathema to their theological beliefs".

Right, and I should add the rich Muslims don't see the Palestinians as Arabs and it's not because of their theological beliefs they're against Israel, it's because of their economic interests.

"... when it comes to the Jews having a place of their own in the land of their origin ..."

Neither semitic, nor turanic Jews in the least originate from Palestine. It's all only in your jewish heads.

"I have found in my studies that the ancestors of the Canaanites (...the modern-day Lebanese,) do not consider themselves to be Arabs".

Ancestors? You must mean 'descendents'. That's also what I understand. The Canaanites were not semitic, they were probably indo-europeans and, like the Philistines, linked to the Phoenicians, the 'people of the sea'. Consider: the Semites never really mastered sea-faring. But this is all very smokey and controversial. Still, Lebanese and Palestinians lived some 1.300 years under arabic and then turkish yokes. They speak arabic languages, their culture is influenced by the Arabs and they want to live in their own lands and independently. Nowhere else. Why should they move?

"The acquisition of Canaan was so long ago. By all accounts, this should be a non-issue. Just water under the bridge."
Hey, this is the right attitude. It was so long ago. Like the Jews living in Palestine, 3.000 years ago. Forget that time and the stories of the OT then, live all together in one multi-national, multi-ethnical, multi-lingual state. And if you really really want a state of your own so badly, what about applying for Kazakhstan? Stalin gave you Birobidzhan ...

Radioscope, where are your promised replies to our challenges? In particular the Ashkenazi-Khazar 'presupposition' of ours. I would be very interested to read your views, also on the other issues. Only through fair confrontation and debate will we better ourselves as fallible humans. The planet is small, the population growing exponentially, the resources are limited. We must change our ways - you Jews yours too - before it'll be too late to avoid Armageddon.

ran out of steam.

I have to admit, he/she certainly had a lot of it!

... even if they are almost always so one-sided. Radioscope did have a lot of steam, ... we have more. We have the Jews' knowledge, and often more; it is just that we Gentiles lack tribal cohesion, which is their real strength. In Israel and elsewhere, Ashkenazis and Sephardis quarrel, fight with each other. But when they face the Gentiles they become one single, solid block. Let's learn from them.

And I agree that people must unite.

But, Jews must be persuaded to unite with us.

Because it is not us against Jews - but, humanity against inhumanity.

The struggle is between those who worship God and those who worship themselves.

Zionists worship themselves. They believe that knowledge springs from them, when in fact Knowledge is God's - only.

Humans are simply blessed to be privy to it.

In that sense, Jewish people were indeed chosen to be enlightened with knowledge from God.

But, that is different from saying that they are the 'Chosen' ones, i.e., superior to everyone else, to be worshipped by themselves and by others.

The biggest sign that God chooses whom he pleases to endow with knowledge is that He sent His message AGAIN through the prophet Muhammad who was not only far removed from the Jewish tribes (sons of Isaac), but was also illiterate.

We must always expose inhumanity. But where were people like us when the Arabs and Moors (Muslims) invaded West Asia, North Africa and Western Europe? When the Christians invaded the New World, the Far East and Oceania? Inhuman behaviour was as common then as it is now that the Jews have their turn at nationalism and expansionism, assisted by renegate christian Gentiles. These days, like in ancient times, religion is being used to justify abominations committed in the name of religious beliefs. Now it's the turn of the Jews to be armed with the religious belief that Palestine and the Middle East belong to them because of faked history and their God's choice.
I am respectful of all religious beliefs, but I object to their secularization. As a secularist raised in a christian environment, I appreciate christian lore and traditions and the christian motivations that pushed people like John Beaty to write his political masterpiece 'The Iron Courain over America'. As a frequent visitor and guest in the muslim lands I appreciate the islamic faith and hospitality (though not all their practices). But as a long-term student of the 'Jews' I had the greatest problems in figuring them out. Why, I always asked myself, are people in principle so religious and who have suffered so much actually so difficult to deal with and so cruel towards their neighbours? The answer is that they have deceived us and deceived themselves too, through propagating some of the greatest hoaxes in history. Their being semitic and not turanic, steppe people, for example. Also, their being religious, which actually refers to but a few of them, the wide majority being unreligious.
So the Jews won't be persuaded to unite with us and stop the abominations in the Middle East and elsewhere. Or to usher a new technological era where energy and other commodities are plentiful for all. They want the planet for themselves to consume, all races to pay tribute and be consumed. It's not so much written in their holy books, it's written in the ways of the steppes, to which they still kling. Radioscope told us: it is up to us, are we all up to it, to bring in to history what we wish for OURSELVES?
The struggle is between those who worship God and those who worship themselves. Zionists worship themselves.
Every (religious) group of believers [even Soviets] worshiped themselves through their on God [Lenin] at one point or other. Knowledge belongs to Mankind, we pass it from one generation to the next.
The biggest sign that God chooses whom he pleases to endow with knowledge is that He sent His message AGAIN through the prophet Muhammad who was not only far removed from the Jewish tribes (sons of Isaac), but was also illiterate.
Interesting. Anyway Muhammad regarded the Jews highly, like all Arabs did till 1948. In Cairo you can still find Jews, living without fear amidst Arabs. Islam is tollerance and peace, when it is not used to fuel expansionism. The Muslims must still realize they're being invaded by a turkik horde, like in the times of Seljuk, Il-Kahn, Tamerlane ...

The original page from which this discussion sprung has got more visibility than this page could provide. Just by being listed under Must Reads ... guarantees its visibility. I must say this discussion have some of the most cogent arguments of any topic I have the pleasure to read. I will therefore go back to the original pages and post there in the hope that some questions will be answered. If I don't get any response, that means this format is not conducive to further discussions. If the site owner would contact me, I could suggest an alternative solution that could further advance this site.